Media Files
Title:
Kevin Campbell
Collection:
Oral Histories
Organization:
Bondurant History
Duration:
01:00:46
Duration:
01:00:46
No index available for this file.
GLORIA THOMAS: OK we're
here with Kevin Campbell
and Kevin was born here and
raised here in Bondurant.
I'm Gloria Thomas and
I and Martha Saunders
are doing the interview for the
Bondurant Community Club Pops.
And Kevin, we're
hoping, will give us
some information about his
early life in Bondurant
and some history that
we don't know about.
So we'll just start.
Kevin, would you give us
your full name please?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I already
did, but the camera was off.
We can't keep giggling
on this, Kevin.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Campbell,
give us your full name, please.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Kevin
Walden Campbell.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And
Kevin, what year were you
born here in Bondurant?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: 1954, the
year after you were born.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And Kevin,
where is your family's
homestead located?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Actually,
it's located on Jack Creek
because that's where
the water that comes out
of that we irrigate it with,
but it's a ways from Jack Creek.
It's actually between
Jack Creek and Dale Creek.
And you're a third-generation
Campbell, correct?
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And
your parents' names were?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Walden Lorenzo
Campbell and Patricia Joyce
McGinnis Campbell.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And
they came from where?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: My
dad was raised here.
And your mom was from--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah,
she came from Utah.
And then so your father
was raised in Bondurant
and his parents' names would be?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Lorenzo Edgar Campbell,
but they called him Lenny--
nobody called him Lorenzo--
and Loretta Lance Campbell.
And they called her Rita.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And
where'd she come from?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I'm not
sure where she was born.
Maybe Utah, I don't know.
My granddad was born, I think--
I'm not sure where he was born.
But they came here
out of Utah and Idaho.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And
what twin was that?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: My granddad
came here first in 1910,
but he didn't come here
to homestead until 1913.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And you
had mentioned earlier
he came with--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: His brother
and his brother-in-law, Arthur
Campbell and Shell Baker.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And those
gentlemen settled up near--
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
They all homesteaded
consecutive homesteads
on that flat there.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Between
Jack Creek and Dale Creek.
All right.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Also tell
them about owning the land.
That homestead is the only piece
of ground in the whole bank
basin that's never been sold.
MARTHA SAUNDERS:
Still Campbell ground?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: It's
never been sold.
It's changed hands from
generation to generation.
But it's the only piece
that's never been sold,
the only original homestead,
the only piece of ground
that's never been sold.
GLORIA THOMAS: And how
has it been added to,
like the Bondurant place?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well, my
granddad bought the Bondurant
place, I believe,
in the early '40s
when my dad was in the service.
I think he went in--
anyway, around '42 or
something like that, I think,
my granddad bought the Bondurant
place from Carol Noble.
Is there any other land you've
accumulated over the years?
There is.
My mother and
father, they bought
what my dad always referred
to as the Bowlsby place
from Anson Hoyt.
And they did that,
I believe, in '52.
They didn't have it when
they were first married.
The first house they had
when they were married
was up on the Baker place
there that the Fronks
owned at that time.
And they lived in
a house up there.
And I think the next year--
my mother would know
this way better than me,
if you could get her to do an
interview, which she probably
won't do.
MARTHA SAUNDERS:
Maybe you can help us.
GLORIA THOMAS: Where is
the Hoyt place originally?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: The one that
we bought from Anson Hoyt?
GLORIA THOMAS: Hoyt, uh-huh.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: It's
where my mother lives now.
And was there--
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
But originally, it
was Bill Bowlsby's homestead.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That's why my
dad called the Bowlsby place.
It was originally Bill
Bowlsby's homestead.
GLORIA THOMAS: And this
would be turning up
the Jack Creek Road
off of the highway 191
and that's what, about two
miles off the highway, Kevin?
Is it that far?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
It's almost three.
GLORIA THOMAS:
Almost three miles.
There's a chimney
that still stands
that nobody seems to know
where that chimney came--
who it belonged to, right
before your mom's place.
Is that the Bowlsby place?
Well, that was originally
Bandy Bowlsby's homestead.
But that isn't where
the chimney come from.
The chimney was--
there was Fisk's house.
Roy Fisk's and Joan
Mack's parents' place.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That chimney
is just below our fence line.
GLORIA THOMAS: And between
Victor Mack's place?
So that makes sense.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well, it's
on Victor Mack's place.
All right.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: But before
it was Mack's, before it was
Victor and Joan's.
It was her parents'
place, Dr. Fisk.
He was a doctor.
I can't remember his name.
They called him Dr. Fisk.
And Marcella was the mother.
All right.
And then we have the Fisk,
Roy and Carolyn Fisk, that
still are here, and Bruce and--
GLORIA THOMAS: --Brett
that are still here.
And then the Macks
are down in Farson?
Is that correct?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well,
Victor senior and Joan
still live here
in the summertime
and they own that
property below us there.
And originally, that Dr.
Fisk and this Anson Hoyt
were partners on both places.
And it was--
I believe they'd bought
it from Marshall Purvis.
And he had operated a dude ranch
there and he was the one that
named it the C Heart C.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And
then I believe--
Victor and Joan would know
more about this than even I.
But I believe Fisk's
and Anson Hoyt
were partners, and partnered
up and bought the C Heart
C, which was both places--
minus 100 acres that Victor
bought from Banty Bowlsby
later that he own there now.
It didn't consist of all what
William and Victor own now,
the C Heart C because
Victor acquired another 100
acres from Banty
Bowlsby at a later date.
Banty was down there when
I was a kid below us.
But no, Macks still
own their portion
of what was the C Heart C
now, but they dissolved--
Fisk's and Anson heart
dissolved partnership
and they split the place in
half, the C Heart C in half.
And my dad mother bought the
upper part of it from Anson.
GLORIA THOMAS: Where
your Mom's at now.
From Anson Hoyt.
And that was '52, I believe.
But maybe not.
No, that might have
been '53 because I
think they got married in '52.
I think they get married in '52.
GLORIA THOMAS: When
your grandparents
came here and
homesteaded, were they
planning to be cattle ranchers
at that point in time?
Is that why they saw
Bondurant as home?
That's what--
GLORIA THOMAS: I mean, it's
always been a cattle ranch,
right?
From the get-go.
GLORIA THOMAS: Now what about--
the season here is so short.
What did they do for groceries?
Did they have a garden?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well, they did
have a garden and, of course,
they ate a lot of wild
game, and they did
have some pigs and milk cows.
GLORIA THOMAS: Where
did they go to buy flour
and sugar and canned tomatoes?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Down
there in Bondurant.
GLORIA THOMAS: It was open then.
OK, he was bringing in-- he
was the local supply store.
And I assume they'd get to town
once in a while, I don't know.
GLORIA THOMAS:
Town being Jackson?
Pinedale?
[INAUDIBLE]?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Pinedale,
I think, probably.
My granddad packed the mail to--
I don't know for
how long, but he'd
pack it from the Bondurant
place to out here
to what they call the Scott
place out on top of the rim.
And then he'd meet
somebody there.
GLORIA THOMAS: What is
the Scott place now?
GLORIA THOMAS: The Rim Station?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Miller's got it now.
And not-- there's a Scott
place on the Green River,
but they call this--
later they called it
the Culbertson place.
It's the first place after you
top out over the rim, past--
GLORIA THOMAS: Where you'd
turn to go into Hoback
ranches, that upper--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Harmon
Pfisterer owns the first ground
to your right.
And then after that's Miller's.
GLORIA THOMAS: So the
mail for Bondurant
would go to the top of
the rim and then they
would relay it on into
Pinedale from there
or wherever it was going.
That was a long time ago.
But he'd do it on skis.
Now, how they did it in the
summertime, I don't know.
But he didn't pack
it in the summertime.
He packed in the
winter time on skis.
GLORIA THOMAS: The
road, the highway
was obviously not a
highway, but it was a dirt
road at that point in time.
But it still went the
same route, right?
Up over the rim?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Oh, well,
I suppose, approximately.
I couldn't tell you about that.
But I think they've always
went out over the rim.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: A
lot of switchbacks.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Kind
of the way they do.
I mean, kind of topped
out in the same spot.
But yeah, like Martha said,
it's on a different core.
I mean, it's--
GLORIA THOMAS: Moved around.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
--in the same area,
but it's way different,
just like the road down
through the canyon's
way different.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: You used to go
on the other side of the river.
Now it's--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
think originally
it was on this side--
GLORIA THOMAS: The west side.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: --of the river
and then they changed it.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Is that right?
Part of it was, anyway.
GLORIA THOMAS: So did your
dad have any siblings?
Did he have brothers
and sisters?
He had five sisters.
Two of them didn't--
one of them died as an
infant and the other one
died, I think, when
she was two years old.
But he had two--
or three sisters that grew up.
And one of them lived here
all her-- his oldest sister,
Mollie.
Her real name wasn't Mollie.
It was Mildred.
That's what my dad called
her, but most people
called her Mollie.
You've heard of Aunt Mollie.
She was called Aunt
Mollie by a lot of people
because she had the nieces
and nephews that all called
her Aunt Mollie, and
then lots of people
started calling her Aunt Mollie.
But her and her
husband lived there
at what's called the
Bosone place now.
She was married to Jim Bosone.
GLORIA THOMAS: And did
they raise cattle as well?
GLORIA THOMAS: So that was
pretty much the standard--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Everybody did.
GLORIA THOMAS:
--homesteading business here
was cattle ranching.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Mostly everybody
most everybody I should say.
There wasn't much else.
GLORIA THOMAS:
Well, dude ranching.
Did the Bondurants do some--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Oh,
there was some dude--
GLORIA THOMAS: --dude
ranching as well?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
don't remember hearing
about Bondurants doing it.
Like, Banty Bowlsby did and
this Marshall Purvis did
and Bob McNeil used to
take some hunters out,
used to do hunters.
There was a lot of--
a lot of people
took hunters out.
GLORIA THOMAS: Another
way to make a living.
Right.
And the Hickses, which would
have been a long time ago.
My dad used to guide for them.
They had this ground
over here that Saunders
has got part of, which they
called the Dave Hicks place.
Or he's got all of the
Dave Hicks place, I think,
except for that--
I'm not sure.
No.
that piece of ground there
that Evans is on now,
I believe it was part
of the Ralph Hicks.
Ralph Hicks, yeah.
GLORIA THOMAS: The corner of the
upper hill back in the highway?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, that was
part of the Ralph Hicks deal.
The Ralph Hicks family,
they took hunters out
and my dad guided for
them when he was young.
Albert Fates that owned what was
the Black Powder at one time.
GLORIA THOMAS: It was
then the last C Barbie--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And owned
this place at one time,
but he originally lived down
there in that house that was--
that's still the Black Powder,
that's been way redone.
But they took hunters out.
That's how-- and had
cabins to rent and stuff.
And that's how my
mother and my dad
met was she was working here.
I don't know if you were to
Summers or just briefly worked
a couple of Summers
down there for Fateses.
And my dad was guiding
hunters or whatever
for them and they met and--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And so that's--
so yeah, I shouldn't have
said there wasn't much else.
But there wasn't--
the base income
was dude ranching.
I mean, if you had--
there wasn't a lot of
people who sold a lot of hay
in those days.
If they did, it would
be to the neighbors
because you didn't haul it out.
And there wasn't
all the people--
the homes with people who
has got horses around.
Like, there was no
development whatsoever hardly
when I was a boy.
There wasn't even the buildings.
The first development--
I guess the first
development probably
would have been down
along the highway, which
I don't remember, like
from the old post office,
on down through there.
I don't remember the Triangle
F fewer and the few houses,
and the whole back village.
GLORIA THOMAS: The Triangle F
was here when you came along,
it was already established.
And the Elkhorn was
already established.
And that's part of--
GLORIA THOMAS: So you
had the Black Powder,
you had the Elkhorn,
you had Triangle F.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well,
the black powder wasn't--
GLORIA THOMAS: It was
a dude ranch, Right?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah,
and a cattle ranch.
And a cattle ranch.
He owned all of that
ground up from there
as far as to where Henrys live
and Richardsons is in that,
or what used to be Richardsons.
Oh, and that meadow ground
for, like, Patty's place is
and where Fisk's ground
is and where [INAUDIBLE]..
GLORIA THOMAS: That
was all V-Bar-V.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, and
it was all meadow ground.
There wasn't any--
that's all it was.
I mean, Patty's house
wasn't even there.
Fateses were the ones
that put that house there.
GLORIA THOMAS: And it came
from somewhere down on Alpine
somewhere, I think she told me.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I have no idea.
But they moved [INAUDIBLE].
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Was it Frank
Van Vleck that had the V-Bar-V?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
believe so, Martha.
I believe.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: There
were two brothers.
One start-- Roy and
one of them started
a store in Jackson and the other
one took this ranch out here.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And you
would know that more than I
because the first
owners that I--
I mean, I knew the
Van Vlecks owned it.
That's where the V-Bar-V
came from, was Van Vleck.
But that was before my time.
The first owners that I knew
that had it were Fateses.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And that
was Margaret and Albert.
Exactly.
And then they later
sold it to Roy Fisk.
And there wasn't-- these
buildings weren't here,
but he still had what was
referred to in those days--
he bought it from somebody
by the name of Cull.
I believe.
And so they called this--
he had it leased.
And then he bought it and
they called it the Cull place,
or whatever.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: OK,
that was Cull, C-U-L-L.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Cull
place, is that what it was?
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And he was the
judge, but that's all I know.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah,
and I never knew him.
And I knew owned it
and Albert leased it,
and then he bought it from him.
And I don't know if he bought
it from him at the time
he sold the other or if he'd
got it bought before he sold
the other, and then went
ahead and sold the other
and put the buildings
here and was here for--
it doesn't seem to me like
they lived here for too long
before [INAUDIBLE] bought it.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: I think
probably about six years
before [INAUDIBLE] bought it.
GLORIA THOMAS: OK, Kevin,
let's talk about your family.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: One
point of interest
about the V-Bar-V
down there, I'm
certain that's where
Perry Pfisterer originally
homesteaded.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: I
think you're right.
And that was--
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Harmon's grandad.
Jake and Jean's dad.
And that's why Pfisterers
were here before Campbells.
But their original
homestead has changed hands.
GLORIA THOMAS: So it
was Pfisterer, then
it was Van Vleck?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: No, I think--
GLORIA THOMAS: But it's
the same ground, right?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I think
Jake [INAUDIBLE],, I think,
was after that, I believe.
But anyway, Jake Pfisterer
told me this story,
that his dad was a
progressive kind of guy
and there wasn't
any room to progress
down there, because there wasn't
enough ground adjoining him.
So he traded for
some ground up here.
I don't know if it
was piece where--
Harmon would know,
I'm sure if it's
the piece where they lived
today or if it was-- anyway,
he traded, made some
kind of an agreement
and got ground over here.
And there was lots of
adjoining homesteads
there that he was able to
acquire and to put together
the nice piece of
ground they got now.
So that's why we've got
the only piece that's never
changed hands, never been sold.
Pfisterers were here first,
but original homestead is now--
GLORIA THOMAS: Five
times they moved.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Changed
hands many times.
Sorry to interrupt.
GLORIA THOMAS: Oh, that's OK.
That's OK.
You get to fill
in a lot of holes
about the history of
Bondurant, I'm sure.
But as far as the
Campbell family,
so your grandma and
grandpa came here.
And then your dad married your
mom and had yourself and--
what siblings do you have?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Are you
sure the camera's still on?
I have two sisters
and a brother.
Katherine is my oldest sister.
Do you want the full name?
This is historical stuff.
Katherine N. Campbell
Bond, Colleen Campbell,
and Lenny Joe Campbell.
GLORIA THOMAS: And they all
reside in Bondurant now,
on the Campbell place?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Colleen doesn't
reside in the Campbell place.
She resides on
the Little Jennie.
But they're still
local Bondurant.
And now are there more?
Or there was another
generation following yours.
Do you have children?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
have a daughter.
GLORIA THOMAS: And her name is?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Heidi Marie Campbell.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
Heidi has a daughter.
GLORIA THOMAS: And her name is?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Davielle Mae Sterner.
And does Katherine
have any children?
GLORIA THOMAS: Colleen
has a daughter.
GLORIA THOMAS: Colleen's
daughter's name is?
Jenny-- Little Jenny?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well I
have a little trouble
keeping track of that stuff.
I don't remember--
GLORIA THOMAS:
Colleen and Bud Smith
have a daughter named Jenny.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
then Lenny has--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And Bud
and Colleen were married,
but she kept her maiden name.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And they had--
GLORIA THOMAS: Little Jenny.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Yeah, little Jenny.
GLORIA THOMAS: And then
Lenny has two kids.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Yeah, he does have.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
their names are?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Walden and Anna.
And that's the
fourth generation.
And then we have a
fifth with Heidi's.
Now, you attended school
here in Bondurant.
And I believe you told
me at some point in time
that it was a summer school
because of the winter
conditions.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
you went to school
from-- what months of the
year did you go to school?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: April through
the first week in December.
First part of April, about
the first week in April
until the first
week in December.
GLORIA THOMAS: Did that
vary with the snow melting
and coming?
No?
The county would always
usually get us plowed out
by the first of April.
They'd come in with
a CAT, plow it out.
Way different deal
than it is now.
Charlie McCallister'd
come in with the CAT.
They'd drink, play cards.
He'd just move in here.
People who went would move
in here and stay here.
His mother-in-law was
Lydia Neely down here
that was the postmaster at
the time and had a house.
And the post office
down here across
from where [INAUDIBLE]
were, down there right
next to the church, and anyway,
that was his mother-in-law.
He'd stay there
sometimes and or he'd
stay wherever he wound up
that night with the CAT
when he was in the loop road.
Why, they'd play Solo
and drink whiskey.
And he'd get on the
CAT the next morning,
might still be a little drunk.
Didn't have to do any--
GLORIA THOMAS: Too dark to
plow or too drunk to plow.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Didn't
have to do any tests.
They didn't test their
employees like they do now.
Didn't have to
worry about anybody
coming in and testing him.
And he'd plow till he--
GLORIA THOMAS: Till he
wanted to stop drinking.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Yeah, till he got
to the next place or whatever.
And it'd take him probably
a week to get it plowed out.
Then we'd start school.
GLORIA THOMAS: And now, did he
plow the upper Hoback as well?
Was there families up there
that had kids coming to school?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah,
I'm sure he did.
I'm sure he probably did.
We were a lot more--
what's the word I'm--
a lot more isolated
in those days, the two
different-- the north end and
the south end of Bondurant,
of the basin.
We're not-- didn't communicate
near like we do now.
GLORIA THOMAS: And the distance
is really not that big.
I mean, you're talking,
what, less than--
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Yeah, but people--
GLORIA THOMAS: --less than 10
miles from upper Hoback to you.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: The upper
Hoback was quite a bit
removed from our area over here.
So I'm not real sure--
the Jack Creek, Dale Creek deal.
I'm not real sure what
happened up there.
Bob [INAUDIBLE] might have kept
part of plowed out himself with
his CAT, because he used to--
GLORIA THOMAS: Did he have
kids that came to school?
GLORIA THOMAS:
Did they come down
to go to the school
on the highway?
They went to Bondurant too.
GLORIA THOMAS: So the
road had to be open.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
mean, I went to school
with the youngest
daughter, Mary Kay.
But she was older than me.
I think I went to school with
her two years and then she--
like, when I was in the
first and second grade
and she was in the seventh
and eighth, I think.
GLORIA THOMAS: So the school was
through the eighth grade year.
MARTHA SAUNDERS:
Can you remember
some of the kids that
went to school there?
Probably all of them.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Richard Pearson
he went to school, I think--
and he would know.
Mary Kay, I think I might have
went to school with her three
years.
She might have been a
year younger than Richard.
It seemed like the first year,
when I was in first grade,
there was one eighth grader and
that was Sharon [INAUDIBLE]..
And I just went to
school with her one year.
Richard I went to
school with two years.
I believe Richard and Harmon
were in the same grade, Harmon
Pfisterer.
I believe they were
in the same grade.
I'm not sure.
And then Pfisterers had
a family working for him
over here that stayed over there
in where the trailer is there
now.
There was a house there.
And they were big family.
Snows-- Carl Snow
was the guy's name,
and they had they
had seven kids.
And those kids--
GLORIA THOMAS: Darlene Penton--
GLORIA THOMAS:
--was one of them.
OK.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: No, she wasn't
one of the Snow kids, no.
But she--
GLORIA THOMAS: She
we to school there.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Some of that
same family, but that was--
some of that same family, but
it was George and Hannah Snow,
I believe, that
helped raise Darlene.
GLORIA THOMAS: She remembers.
She had mentioned she had come
to school here as a young girl.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah Darlene
isn't actually a Snow,
but they helped--
her maiden name wasn't Snow.
I'm pretty sure.
I don't think it was.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: I think Hannah
is Darlene's sister or half
sister.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Something
like that, yeah.
Yeah.
I think-- and Hannah
was older, so I think
she came to stay with them.
I think you're right.
Yeah.
GLORIA THOMAS: But
this would have
been the red schoolhouse that's
down behind the Bondurant
school now?
I mean, that's where I went.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
Pearson and Harmon?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah,
we all went there.
And it had been going for
a little while when I went.
I don't know when--
I mean, and it was a
pretty good building then.
It was-- it's old and
wore out now, but--
[LAUGHS]
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Did Terry
[INAUDIBLE] go to school here?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
I don't think so.
And of course, he
was older than me.
But I think-- see, they
came from California.
And I don't think he ever
did go to school here.
I may be wrong, but
I don't think so.
I think that he went to
school in California.
Certainly his
early years he did.
I'm pretty sure--
I don't think he ever went
to Jackson or Pinedale
for high school education.
I think he did go to the--
he might have went to Jackson.
I don't know.
He did go to the
University of Wyoming.
I know that.
So he might have went
to Jackson and he--
I don't think he
went to Bondurant.
But that was-- he's quite
a little older than me.
He was the one that
drove the school bus when
Fred and Laurie and Katherine
and I went to the Pinedale
the first time--
GLORIA THOMAS: And that
was after the eighth grade.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: --which
I already told you.
GLORIA THOMAS: Excuse Kevin.
Excuse Gloria.
So your first grade through
eighth grade was in Bondurant,
and then you had to go
to Pinedale on the bus.
Or you boarded-- how
many years did you
board before the bus started?
The last-- you already told
me that, but tell us again.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well, I
boarded the first three
years I went to high school.
The first two years I stayed
with Chauncey and Mary
Clark that had that place
right outside of Pinedale
by where Dew Lumber is--
what they call
Pinedale Lumber now.
But it was Dew Lumber then.
And then the last year I stayed
with Charlie and [INAUDIBLE]
McAllister.
And then that I boarded out,
and then the next year--
GLORIA THOMAS: Your senior year.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: --as a
Senior, Saunders moved here
and my mother wanted to get
a bus going back and forth.
And so Fred and Laurie started
the second semester, I believe.
Isn't that right?
They started in January or
whenever second semester is.
And Katherine and I drove--
well, I drove.
Katherine rode along.
I wouldn't ride with her
today, much less then.
But anyway, we drove
to the junction
the first part of the year
because we'd been kind of--
they told us that
once [INAUDIBLE]----
GLORIA THOMAS: What do you
refer to as the junction?
The junction-- Daniel Junction?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: The
Daniel Junction.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Used
to be Sergeant's--
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Sergeant's Inn, yeah.
But yeah, the Daniel Junction.
GLORIA THOMAS: So
you [INAUDIBLE]..
KEVIN CAMPBELL: In those days
it was referred to as the Y.
GLORIA THOMAS: It's
definitely a T. It's not a Y.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well,
there was a Y, though.
Must have--
It split.
GLORIA THOMAS: It's changed.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: It
split from Daniel.
The road from Daniel split and
one fork of it would come north
and the other fork
would go south,
and they called it the Daniel Y.
GLORIA THOMAS: And
then you would--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And so
they didn't actually
call it the Junction.
they didn't call it
because, as Martha said,
the place of business was
called Sergeant's Inn.
GLORIA THOMAS: Was
there a hotel there?
Big-- what was it, about
three stories, Martha?
It was a big--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, a big--
And they had--
I can't remember what kind of--
what did they sell in there?
They had a kind of
a convenience store.
And I don't remember if they--
MARTHA SAUNDERS: I know they
had a restaurant and rooms.
And I'm not sure what
else they got there.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
don't remember either.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Because
Daniel used to have a store.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Right, right.
And so I don't know--
they probably didn't
have a store, maybe.
They probably just had a--
MARTHA SAUNDERS: I
just don't remember.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
--restaurant and rooms.
And then, no, they
didn't have a bar,
but they had the
bar at Daniel there.
And Sid Skiver had
a room up there
and he was a old
cowboy that cowboyed
for Millers and
different people,
but mostly Millers
for many years.
And he drank a little
bit of whiskey, too.
GLORIA THOMAS: As any
good cowboy would, right?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Yeah, that's typical.
And he was a drunk.
And he went to sleep up
there in one of those rooms
with a cigarette,
and it burned up.
So did he.
GLORIA THOMAS: There went the
Sergeant's Inn and the cowboys.
Probably a song in
there somewhere.
Don't smoke when
you're sleeping.
All right, back in Bondurant.
The Bondurant Barbecue
has been going
on, as I understand,
since, like, 1941.
So it would've been well
established by 1954.
What are your first
early memories
of the Bondurant Barbecue?
People-- I hear there used
to be really large, large
crowds that would
come in for this.
And Martha would
probably remember more--
GLORIA THOMAS: Well, tell us
what you know of the Bondurant
Barbecue history.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
--about that than me.
But it was-- because I was
still pretty young when--
I was still in school
when Martha came here.
And she'd been much
more affiliated with it
than my family has
been, although I
did donate you beef one time.
GLORIA THOMAS: You did
donate me a beef one time.
[INAUDIBLE]
[LAUGHING]
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Your mom and
dad used to be very active.
Yeah.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: And I think
Pat was secretary several years.
Your Aunt Mollie, until
she couldn't anymore,
sold more tickets than
anybody to the barbecue.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I remember
that now that you mention it.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: They
were very active in it.
Yeah, yeah.
And so--
This is your [INAUDIBLE].
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Did
you get scolded?
I'd appreciate it if you'd
helped me out because,
like I said, you can remember--
when I was 18 years
old or whatever--
GLORIA THOMAS: That
was a long time ago.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That was
probably the last thing
on my mind was a barbecue.
GLORIA THOMAS: There probably
had to be girls there.
Had to be girls, pretty girls.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I was much
more interested in trying
to date the Saunders girls
than I was the barbecue.
So but it was quite a big
county event at one time.
Is your camera off again?
I'm just trying to figure how
to get a picture of Martha
on here so we know
who's talking to you.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And I've seen it
go downhill as a county event,
not because of the
barbecue itself,
but just because the
whole country is changed.
The local county people
don't get together,
like the ranchers and
businessmen and stuff
in Sublette County.
At that point in
time, there wasn't
a lot of residential people.
Well, Hoback Ranches
didn't exist at that time.
GLORIA THOMAS: That started
in the mid '70s, late '70s?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Late '70s probably.
They were still running cattle
on it when I was growing up.
In my early years, Millers
owned it and ran cattle on it.
And so there just wasn't--
most of the people were
either ranchers or businessmen
or whatever.
And everybody knew each
other and the barbecue
was one of the
place that all of--
lots-- I shouldn't say all,
but many of the old-timers
would come in and visit.
And didn't seem like there
was a lot of drinking.
GLORIA THOMAS: Quite
a social event.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: It was
quite a social event.
They'd get together and
maybe drink a little beer
and eat and visit.
And they didn't-- as far
as the event itself goes,
there probably is a lot more
going on now than there used
to be at that time.
GLORIA THOMAS: Well, there
wasn't quite the competition.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: They were
just eating and visit.
They didn't need music
or they didn't need--
there wasn't-- the kids
just go, just eat and visit,
right Martha?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And
maybe drink a beer,
but didn't seem like it
was an event where very
few people really overdrank.
But they drank a little
beer and visit and have fun.
And so that's the
change I can see
is it's not near as
local as it used to be.
I know there was huge
crowds, but a lot of them
were local people and the
local ranchers and businessmen
from Pinedale and
Big Piney and such,
Daniel, and that country doesn't
show up like they used to.
GLORIA THOMAS: Well,
there a lot more going on.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: More
going on and people--
that was a big day for
them to come in and visit.
They could all get together
in one spot instead
of seeing each other
every now and then
at all the different
weddings and all
the different social
occasions that go on.
And people just didn't commute
in those days like they do now.
GLORIA THOMAS: It's a
lot easier to get around.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Like
when I was growing up,
it was a big deal to go to town.
I guess having been--
being a newcomer to
the area, I remember
probably you and Lenny talking
about how you could go down
to Forky's, which
is now the Elkhorn,
and buy your fence wire and your
school clothes and your boots.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: They had
a hardware store, yeah.
GLORIA THOMAS: And so
you didn't need to--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: You couldn't get
everything you could in town,
but you could get
horse shoes and stuff.
Yeah, they had kind
of a hardware store.
GLORIA THOMAS: So people kind of
did business where they lived,
and then to get to go
to a barbecue in Daniel
or Bondurant or Big Piney
would be a social event.
GLORIA THOMAS: Now there's one
on every corner every weekend
all summer.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: The
different communities
didn't co-mingle near
as much as we do now.
But everybody knew each
other and liked each other,
but they didn't--
since traveling--
nobody in those days
would, like, drive to
Jackson to work every day
or to Pinedale to work every day
like my whole family does now.
My mother drives to
Jackson and my two sisters
drive to Jackson.
My ex-wife drives to Jackson.
And my girlfriend
drives to Pinedale.
So that was unheard of.
I mean, nobody did that.
Well, the world changed
tremendously in the last--
And so--
- KEVIN CAMPBELL: --it
isn't such a big deal.
I mean, we all love to see
each other and love my friends
and have fun whenever
I go someplace
and drink too much whiskey
and have fun and visit.
Like the other night,
I went to Pinedale
to watch a horse buck that I
got and they tried him out.
And hell, I saw a
whole bunch of people
just right there in that night.
I mean, there it's
rodeo, you know?
And so anyway, as far
as the barbecue goes,
I think it's still a very good
event that Bondurant should
be proud of, but it doesn't
get to local Sublette County
support that it used to
get because people just--
and it's not because they
don't like the barbecue.
It's just it's not such
a big-- there's so much--
yeah.
And life has kind of changed, it
seems like, all the way around.
GLORIA THOMAS: We're
all way too busy.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Everybody's way too busy
and people don't take the
time to go visit each other
and see each other
like they used to.
GLORIA THOMAS: Well we had to
put y'all the movies to get you
up here.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Well, I
come here occasionally.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: What can you
tell us about the Indian Trail?
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
You know, I can't.
I don't know how
it got its name,
why they call it Indian Trail.
And Joyce said to me, you
mean you were raised here
and you never asked why it
was called the Indian Trail?
And I said, well, I just
assumed the Indian used it.
I don't know.
GLORIA THOMAS:
Makes sense to me.
I mean, look where it's at.
It takes you right
up into Dale Creek
and that's where the
hunting was, right?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: It's
been the Indian Trail
as long as I remember.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Have
you found anything--
now, around here we find
fire rings and et cetera.
Do you ever find
anything up your way?
My dad found an
arrowhead, small arrowhead
that he gave me right there
at my grandfather's homestead
where I live now.
But he found it when I
was-- he didn't find it
when he was a boy.
He found it when I was a boy.
He found it and brought it
home to me and gave it to me,
a small, small
arrowhead, I think for--
I mean, it wasn't big like--
but it was perfect.
It was perfect.
And I suppose in all the
shuffles I've been through
in my life, I've
probably lost it,
but I had it when I was a boy.
And living in
different spots I have
and with all that's
happened to me in my life,
I've probably lost it.
But that's the only
Indian artifact
that we've ever found close by.
Richard Pearson
maybe would know why
it was called the Indian Trail.
He would probably know
that because he's older
and, of course, he was raised
up there not far from it,
closer to it than I was.
And his family used
that country a lot.
They took to fishing.
His grandfather and
uncles, the Fronks--
old [INAUDIBLE] Fronk--
and Dan and Vince was his
mother's father and brothers--
they were quite the hunters
and trappers I think,
[INAUDIBLE] and stuff.
GLORIA THOMAS: They had
homesteaded up there
by the Indian Trail, too, Right?
Actually, Bakers
homesteaded up there
before the Indian
trail comes out.
It comes out right at
the base of the place.
GLORIA THOMAS:
That's at the fence.
But see, that was
the Baker place.
Fronks had that above there.
GLORIA THOMAS: The
upper [INAUDIBLE]??
KEVIN CAMPBELL: They
had the farthest up--
the places farthest up the flat.
There was--
GLORIA THOMAS: I think
I remember Eileen--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: They had
three homesteads up there--
Dan's and Vince's and Hurley's.
I remember Eileen talking
of growing up there.
And then later, Eileen--
then when Baker sold out in
the '40s and moved to Montana,
Shell Baker bought
Arthur Campbell's place.
Arthur Campbell, my granddad's
brother, wasn't here very long,
I don't think.
And Shell Baker
bought his place,
so they had a pretty
good-sized chunk of ground.
And then when they
moved to Montana--
and then Theodore, Shell's
son, he had a homestead too.
GLORIA THOMAS:
That was up there?
So I think there's seven
homesteads on that flat.
I think that's what there is.
GLORIA THOMAS: Which is
now all Little Jenny ranch.
One of them's below us.
Seventh homestead's
irrigate out of that ditch,
that ditch that goes
down through there.
Well, there was seven
homesteads on the flat.
They don't all irrigate
out of that ditch.
Dan's didn't irrigate
out of that ditch.
He had to irrigate
it our of Jack Creek.
You don't even see Dan's.
It's above the buildings
up there where--
the upper Little
Jenny ranch buildings.
It's above and
across Jack Creek.
And it's-- have you ever
been to Webb's Camp?
Well, it's that
meadow ground down
that Webb used to run his
horses there, on that damp--
GLORIA THOMAS: Which is
now forest service right?
It's--
GLORIA THOMAS: Is
that still Jenny?
That pasture ground,
that's part of what
they call the Dan Field.
They don't hay it this anymore.
And it did irrigate
out of Jack Creek,
but not out of the same ditch
as the other homesteads.
GLORIA THOMAS: Now,
the honeymoon cabin--
I've heard and ridden horses
up by the honeymoon cabin.
Was that somebody's
homestead there?
I mean, that was Vince's.
It's on Vince's--
Vince Fronk's homestead.
But Bob Wagstaff had
that moved up there
and that's why they call
it the Honeymoon Cabin.
He and his wife used to go up
there and stay or whatever.
GLORIA THOMAS: And honeymoon.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: And
honeymoon, I guess.
I don't know.
And then-- yeah.
And so he had it moved up there.
The ranch hands
moved it up there,
I think, pulled it up there with
a CAT [INAUDIBLE] or whatever.
GLORIA THOMAS: So I keep hearing
people talk about how the snow
levels have changed here.
When you were--
early or as early
as you can remember
childhood, I mean,
the amount of snow
that Bondurant
would get I would think
would make it really hard
to get around.
Did you-- I've heard people
talk about snow planes.
Did your family
have a snow plane?
Fronks did, but they--
GLORIA THOMAS: And this was like
a little plane that had skis?
Is that like a snow
machine with wings?
Is that what--
It had skis instead
of wings, see.
It probably didn't have wings.
MARTHA SAUNDERS: It had a
propeller and it was on skis.
GLORIA THOMAS: Well,
it's called a snow plane.
Because a plane has wings.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That's
why it wasn't an airplane.
An airplane--
GLORIA THOMAS: Well,
it could land on skis.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: An
airplane has wings.
A snow plane has skis.
See, that's the difference.
That's why they call it an
airplane because it has wings
and it can fly.
And a snow plane has skis
and it can go on the snow.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That's why
they call it a snow plane,
but they both have propellers.
Yeah, OK.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Hence
the word "plane."
GLORIA THOMAS: All right, plane.
Back to the original
question, did your family
have a snow plane?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
already said no.
Fronks did.
GLORIA THOMAS: And that was
because the roads weren't
plowed, so they would have to
come in and out to the highway?
Or to the point that the road
would be plowed, I guess.
From the upper Jennie,
which we call now--
down to--
KEVIN CAMPBELL: You know, that
was in my pretty early years.
Things pro-- we're
talking about--
GLORIA THOMAS: Electricity
and running water?
MARTHA SAUNDERS: Remember,
you're on camera.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: My grandmother
didn't ever have running water.
GLORIA THOMAS: Katherine just
put water into that house
since I've been here.
And so anyway, from
when I was, like,
a five-year-old and
six-year-old when
I was boarding out and
going to high school,
things changed quite a
lot in those few years.
Like, my dad-- no, he
didn't have a snow plane.
But he would have us snow trail
to the highway that either
with a team or we'd go to
the highway with a team
or just ride a
saddle horse down,
and they'd have a vehicle
parked on the highway.
And down here at
the old post office
I believe was where they
usually parked it, and maybe
possibly at Flerky's,
but Flerky was kind
of an ornery old guy so he--
GLORIA THOMAS: Wanted
to charge parking.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
Probably wouldn't--
I think they'd park it down
here the old post office.
And of course, there is
usually snow on the highway,
too, so it wasn't
a problem when he'd
get to the highway with
his team and sleigh--
just one bob, not a big
hay rack type of sleigh,
just one bob with a little box
on it such for you to ride in
and whatever.
And then if they had
to go to town, why,
he'd it tie the team
up to the bubble--
that's what we called the
little sleigh was a bubble--
and it had some hay.
He put hay in for you to sit
on while you going down there.
And the team would eat the hay
and they'd go to town a get--
not very often
because we'd get what
we'd call winter groceries in.
And you'd bring them in
to stock up on anything
that you might need except
what little fresh stuff
you'd need in the fall and
haul it in on the old Jeep.
GLORIA THOMAS: And if you didn't
have it, you went without.
GLORIA THOMAS: If you didn't
have it, you went without.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, we
had a cellar and stuff.
But they'd go to town every
once in a while and get--
but that's how they'd
get to the highway.
And as far as the snow levels,
you hear them talk about how
the winters used to be a lot
tougher, but they weren't.
We have some awful
tough winters now.
GLORIA THOMAS: But we have
equipment to deal with it,
so it's a lot--
GLORIA THOMAS:
--easier to deal with.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: But
people say, oh, it
doesn't snow like it used to.
Well, and I believe that's
maybe true in some areas.
I think Jackson doesn't get the
snow like it used to, does it?
Because I've seen the pictures
of when they used to have
some of those big snow years.
But the winter of
'96 and seven--
and you were here, honeypie.
GLORIA THOMAS: That
was my second year.
That was my second year.
Didn't scare me off.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: That
was the most snow--
no, it didn't scare you off.
But that was the most snow
I ever saw in my life.
That was more snow than
I ever saw in any time
when I was growing up.
I never saw that much snow
when I was growing up.
GLORIA THOMAS: The
forecast this year,
they're calling for a
lot of snow this year.
We'll see.
KEVIN CAMPBELL:
You probably won't
get much more
interview out of me
if you ruin my day
when you told me that.
GLORIA THOMAS: Better start
putting your winter groceries
up.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I hate
those old, deep snow
years because I've
fought it all my life
and I've finally figured out--
I used to think you needed
quite a little snow for water.
Looking for a small
amount of snow
we had last winter and
what a good hay year,
and just a good year.
If you have the right kind of
spring and summer to follow,
you don't need all that snow.
GLORIA THOMAS: It melts and goes
downhill pretty quick anyway.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, most of
it winds up in Idaho anyway.
It just runs down the Palisades.
And it costs it costs a
lot of money and hard work.
You got to rebuild the fence in
the spring and plow a lot of--
a lot of work, plowing your
hay out and everything.
Two springs ago,
spring before last
that we didn't have a huge
amount of snow that winter.
We had some, but I
never saw a spring
in my life that was that cold.
So when we were--
it was still getting 10 below
in the mornings when we were
starting to calve in April.
So as far as it being the
weather being a lot tougher
back then, I don't think it was.
And when-- I don't remember
what year this was, but--
and I know that the
winter of '36 my dad
talked about being a
really tough winter.
I don't remember
what year it was
that his little sister died.
And she's buried up here
in Bondurant cemetery.
And that was in March he said.
And he said they went
over and buried her
with team and sleigh, of course.
And some of the neighbors came,
I'm sure, wherever whatever.
And from the place
where I live now,
the old homestead,
and he said they
had trouble finding the
sleigh and getting back.
So they didn't have much
snow that winter and that was
in the '30s, probably I
would guess with her--
yeah.
I guess it would be, like,
in the '30s, probably.
So as far as--
GLORIA THOMAS:
What's your attitude
towards global warming?
KEVIN CAMPBELL: I
wish it'd get here.
GLORIA THOMAS: You're ready.
KEVIN CAMPBELL: Yeah, I'm ready.
MARTHA SAUNDERS:
Do you want to--
GLORIA THOMAS: Take a break?
Can we get you back?
We really need-- do you know--